tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9479398.post1091827254891080201..comments2024-03-27T14:45:28.176-05:00Comments on Adventus: I can see clearly now....Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9479398.post-51181512330357144132014-07-23T06:36:23.492-05:002014-07-23T06:36:23.492-05:00A local PCUSA church just tried to vote to leave t...A local PCUSA church just tried to vote to leave that denomination, over the gay marriage issue.<br /><br />I know about it because it is one of the largest Presbyterian churches in the state, and one of the oldest, so it made local news.<br /><br />But what they covered was the controversy, not the issue. It was all about the process and the vote to leave the denomination (which failed). It wasn't about the stance of the PCUSA on gay marriage, except as that issue was divisive in this particular congregation. Indeed, I learned more about the PCUSA's position on that issue from the dissenting church's website than from news accounts.<br /><br />The information is out there; but you have to look for it yourself. It's a regular thing to find op-eds in the Guardian and other British papers from Church of England clergy. In the US, it's rare to find anything not written by some evangelical or fundamentalist who doesn't already have a best seller, a TV show, or a radio show, behind them. Comments from clergy, especially about church teachings?<br /><br />Well, maybe a Catholic Bishop.....Rmjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06811456254443706479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9479398.post-63610787893278983522014-07-22T23:24:55.386-05:002014-07-22T23:24:55.386-05:00Rmj,
I just popped over to http://www.uua.org/new...Rmj, <br />I just popped over to http://www.uua.org/news/pressroom/pressreleases/296102.shtml and I was impressed by what I found there. I expected at least a half measure from the Episcopalians. They lost most of their right wingers to the Anglicans over Eugene Robinson. Oh well. I also read of the terribly rude and arrogant disruption of a UCC service in New Orleans by Operation Rescue. Assholes. Including the standard "I thought you liberals were tolerant." cherry on top. The UCC is clearly doing what it can. I only spent an hour or so, but it doesn't look like the other three I checked on are in the fight. And I left out the Presbyterians. They do gay weddings now, so there is that. Lawrencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05429309964648275918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9479398.post-72813324879674689522014-07-22T08:34:51.955-05:002014-07-22T08:34:51.955-05:00Adding: I must admit I don't check up on the ...Adding: I must admit I don't check up on the social justice or theological statements of other mainline denominations. If your examples prove that's because those denominations don't even bother to make any, then the state of affairs is even sadder than I imagined.Rmjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06811456254443706479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9479398.post-75768802921986196182014-07-22T08:33:34.414-05:002014-07-22T08:33:34.414-05:00You don't give me any evidence that the press ...You don't give me any evidence that the press releases made by, say, the UCC, are given any attention at all.<br /><br />Over at Thought Criminal, several posts noted actions by UCC churches, especially in response to the current "immigration crisis." I haven't heard anything about that on NPR, or MSNBC, or CNN, or in the NYTimes. It doesn't even get to Huffington Post.<br /><br />I'm quite familiar with the press releases made by the UCC (since I'm a UCC pastor), but they never get further than the UCC webpage. Why not? Yet any fatheaded thing Bryan Fischer says gets covered on a wealth of internet sites. Why? The UCC may be a small denomination among the mainlines, but it is invisible and James Dobson, once upon a time (and no minister at all), was ubiquitous.<br /><br />Even Joel Osteen got a lot of attention, as well as Rick Warren. But they stopped writing best-sellers, so nobody cares anymore. But they cared a lot more about Warren's opinions than about those of any mainline denomination.<br /><br />Unless, of course, those denominations are ordaining women, or gays and lesbians. Things the UCC did decades before anybody else did, but again, the UCC remains invisible (except for that "ejector seat" ad, and they couldn't even get that on the air).<br /><br />and I'd say your final paragraph is the problem with churches today: they are run by those who feel "entitled" to them (I know the type well) because they have the age and the money and the time to spend making sure everything is run to their satisfaction.<br /><br />But that's a different problem.<br /><br />Anyway, the problem is not coverage by denominations, but coverage of denominations. They get no attention, no matter what they say, while every utterance of a Rick Warren is considered world news.<br /><br />Or was. We're waiting breathlessly for the next Rick Warren to write a best-seller and so seal his bona fides as a Christian To Be Reckoned With (I still hear more about Mars Hill than ever I heard about Jeremiah Wright's church, one of the largest in Chicago. But black, mostly, and UCC, and who even cared when Wright was notorious? All they cared about was how outrageous they could make Wright appear.)Rmjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06811456254443706479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9479398.post-89243631373156957562014-07-21T23:12:44.134-05:002014-07-21T23:12:44.134-05:00The Pat Robertson candidacy is not an accurate mea...The Pat Robertson candidacy is not an accurate measure of the political power of fundamentalists. Their capture of the Republican primaries is so complete it is probably more useful to list the Republican moderates. No Republican candidate in a red state, especially a Republican safe district, dares cross the christian right on any issue. I contest your assertion that the mainline protestant churches are simply ignored by the media. Certainly the right has deep funding, even their own 24 hour televised propaganda organ. But are the 'liberal' denominations fighting back? Let's see.<br />http://episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/<br />Starting with my old outfit, this is a decent, if bland, news site. News, as in dispassionate, just the facts reporting. Stories about the Detroit water crisis, Gaza, Same sex weddings to be performed in a red state. There is a blog page, but even those appeared informative, non editorial writing. Using the site search I get no results for Hobby Lobby, no actual matches for Focus on the Family of American Family Association. No matches for Supreme Court that pertain to the McCullen or Hoby Lobby cases.<br />http://www.lcms.org/news-releases-archive<br />Let's see what the Lutherans are up to. This is where my wife takes our daughter. This is a Missouri synod site, but I think her church is too. Anyway... The Lutherans have much more about Lutheran theology, a good thing for their flock. They also have dry news, and editorials. The editorial position seems to be a Minnesota Nice affirmation of the christian right. Moving on...<br />http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/press-center<br />There's a scene in The Cannonball Run where Dean Martin and Sammy Davis Jr are drinking in a bar while dressed as Catholic priests and trying to seduce women. Their disguises foil their attempts, and Dean (I believe, it's been awhile) says "We should have been Methodists!" The script was purportedly written by 'Car & Driver' staffer Brock Yates. Let's check his theological math... Okay, news that might look like advocacy if I squinted hard enough. The blog page has a post advocating anti-colonialism. The Frank Schaefer affair gets covered (he is a Methodist). Hobby Lobby reporting looks truly 'fair and balanced'. Not bad.<br /><br />Alpha not exceeded, we fail to reject the null hypothesis. Please trash my research and prove me wrong. That's why I included the links.<br /><br />It's quite telling that initiatives like the NALT project and Blog Against Theocracy are the work of the laity. The leadership knows that every congregation has one, or many (or all), who want everything kept the way it always was until they die, who are still bitching about the 'new' Book of Common Prayer, and who put the money in the plate every Sunday. And these tend to be people with a certain sense of entitlement or ownership. People who made their money in the old economy and have more to spend than young people raising children. <br />Lawrencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05429309964648275918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9479398.post-65679770615726060092014-07-20T10:47:32.684-05:002014-07-20T10:47:32.684-05:00I think the boomlet in church attendance was a res...I think the boomlet in church attendance was a response to the horrors of war, and a need for comfort that pervaded the '50's. Probably, also, a reaction to "godless Communism."<br /><br />Weddings with bridesmaids and groomsmen abundant can be traced to a royal wedding early in the 20th century. The idea slowly caught on in America, and people decided they had to have weddings in churches which would make lovely backdrops for it all. Probably, also, a touch of sanctification of the marriage by the "church," even among Protestants.<br /><br />But I remember "alternate" weddings on beaches and forests in the '70's, and I played the piano for a cousin's wedding in her husband's family's backyard. So the idea of "abandoning" church is not linked to where people are getting married, at all.Rmjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06811456254443706479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9479398.post-17416824689199411182014-07-20T10:04:08.008-05:002014-07-20T10:04:08.008-05:00a couple of questions: you mention that church at...a couple of questions: you mention that church attendance peaked at an abnormal height back in the immediate post-war period- could that have been a sort of side-effect of the various horrors of world war 2? and on a similar line: judging by the old photos, pre-war weddings in my part of the world were relatively simple affairs as well. it seems to me the epic nature of weddings came about as part of the relatively affluent, consumer-oriented nature of the times more than any need to make a *religious* statementjim, some guy in iowahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16737929189283553013noreply@blogger.com