It’s Long Form Day At Chez Adventus

Last night's frank discussion between Charlamagne the God, Angela Rye and Anderson Cooper was a perfect distillation of the Trump coverage conundrum. Here's the transcript:

COOPER: You know, Donald Trump, he, you know, for any -- for whatever you think about him, if you like him, if you hate him, he is certainly who he is. He's shown us who he is every single day.

THA GOD: Yes, which is a fascist and it's crazy because you still don't have news networks having that conversation.

RYE: Yes.

THA GOD: Like when somebody says -- when somebody questions Kamala Harris' blackness, or is he a DEI hire, you all will have roundtable discussions about that, asking that question. How come you're not having roundtable discussions asking, is Donald Trump a fascist? Actually, not even asking it, stating it.

I mean, when you look at the things that he's talking about doing, jailing journalists -- journalists, jailing his political opponents, turning the military on American citizens. The guy said he wanted to terminate the constitution to overthrow the results of an election. How come that is not the topic of discussion on networks like CNN every day?

[20:40:00]

COOPER: But do you think that, I mean, you were raising this with Kamala Harris about her own authenticity, about her own willingness to -- to just, you know, say things that aren't, you know, crafted. Do you think she needs to do more of that? You know, Trump is going to go --

THA GOD: Do I think she needs to keep calling Trump a fascist?

COOPER: Apparently --

THA GOD: Yes.

COOPER: -- apparently Trump's going on, is going to tape a thing with -- with Joe Rogan. Do you think she should -- should do that? THA GOD: I think that she should keep calling Donald Trump a fascist. And I think that Americans need to keep looking at the rhetoric of Donald Trump, because I don't know why we're even thinking about electing somebody who's talking about putting people in camps. I don't know why we're talking -- why we want to elect somebody who's talking about mass deportation.

I don't know why we're having this conversation about somebody who wants to terminate the constitution to overthrow the results of an election. Aren't we supposed to be a patriotic country? Whenever somebody like Colin Kaepernick takes a knee in this country, everybody talks about, oh, that's so unpatriotic. But a guy can say he wants to terminate the constitution to overthrow the results of an election and nobody cares.

Like even -- even -- even me bringing it up now, you -- you brought it back to Kamala and Joe Rogan, Anderson, who gives a damn?

COOPER: Well, I mean, I think you give damn who's elected president. And --

THA GOD: Yes, especially if that president is a fascist that's talking about putting people in camps. That's talking about, once again, terminating the constitution to overthrow the results of an election. That's talking about, you know, jailing his political opponents. Like that rhetoric doesn't scare people?

COOPER: We -- we talk about this every single, this is what, I -- I've been talking about this every -- every night.

THA GOD: I don't think y'all have enough conversations about it. I feel like I heard more on this network about, is Kamala Harris black than I do about, you know, Donald Trump being a fascist. Am I -- Am I wrong, Angela?

COOPER: Honestly, that's bullshit. I'm sorry.

THA GOD: Oh, I like that.

RYE: Go ahead, Anderson.

COOPER: No, no, I'm not -- I'm not, look, I'm a huge fan of yours.

THA GOD: OK.

COOPER: But to say that we're sitting around talk -- discussing, is Kamala Harris black, like, I -- I mean, that's --

THA GOD: Oh, I've seen that. I've seen folks around table discussions a lot. Now, that's bullshit, Anderson, for you to say that you all don't have those conversations.

COOPER: I -- I've never asked somebody, is Kamala Harris is black?

THA GOD: Oh, I'm not saying you. I said the network.

RYE: Not you. He said the network. He did say the network.

COOPER: I don't think anyone -- I don't -- I don't think any anchor on this network has been going around saying, is -- is she black?

THA GOD: You all never have never had a --

RYE: It's definitely -- it's definitely been --

COOPER: We -- we have been -- look, I'm sure we have had, you know, nutty people or -- or people who have strongly held beliefs who I may disagree with, who somewhere on some panel have said something.

RYE: Yes.

COOPER: But I, you know, I will just speak up for -- for what I do on the show. I do believe it's important to get people different viewpoints, as long as they're willing to have a legitimate conversation. And so -- so what I don't like are surrogates who come out and spout talking points that they don't even believe, and those are people I try to eliminate from having ever on the air again.

THA GOD: I think no network has honest conversations about Donald Trump. You haven't had -- nobody's had honest conversations about Donald Trump since 2016. I saw last night, they were talking about, you know, the double standard that exists between Donald Trump and the vice president.

But it's always a double standard with Trump, whether it's with Hillary, whether it's, you know, against Biden, now with -- with Kamala. We talk about him being a threat to democracy, but we don't treat him like one.

COOPER: I mean I don't know what you've been watching, but like I don't know of any Trump supporters out there or people like him who are tuning in to me every night to try to get, you know, to -- to be validated in their opinions. Like I -- I don't know I -- I -- I don't know. I disagree with --

THA GOD: I don't think -- I don't think it's about validating. What do you mean, validating the Trump?

COOPER: Well, you're saying like that we're not, that -- that I guess you're saying I'm not discussing all the things he is saying and doing and pointing it out and talking to, you know, what John Kelly. I mean, this is what -- this has been discussed. There's nobody --

RYE: Anderson --

COOPER: Let me just say, there is nobody on the planet who does not -- has not heard and seen pretty much everything Donald Trump has said and knows --

THA GOD: I don't believe that. I don't believe that.

COOPER: -- knows who he is, whether they believe it or not, whether they care of it. THA GOD: When the Vice President said that to you last night, she said, I don't think enough people know. I -- I 100 percent believe enough people have not heard his rhetoric. What do you think, Angela?

RYE: I was just about to say, can you all tag me in? I'm never doing this --

COOPER: So I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

RYE: -- ever again.

COOPER: Angela, yes. It's -- it's the problem of being on satellite. Yes. Talk, please.

RYE: I know. It's the problem. No, I was just going to say, you know, I think what you're saying is fair that there have been round table discussions where you all raise this. I think the problem is it would be nice for, you know, you to cut the camera and say, I'm looking right here right now. You all Kamala Harris is a black woman. Let's move right along.

COOPER: Yes, yes.

RYE: But -- but -- but I was going to say to your -- your colleague's credit, Jake, right after the town hall yesterday, he said that you all had the opportunity to critique what Kamala Harris policy proposals were, what her positions were, what her recommendations were, whether or not she answered her question fair enough, because ta-da, she's the only one that showed up for the town hall. It was supposed to be a debate. He said that.

I think that the point is we don't hear those things enough. And it has been a threat. We cannot say, oh, you know, Kamala is going on with Joe Rogan or no, I'm sorry. Donald Trump is going on with Joe Rogan, but Kamala's choosing Club Shay Shay debated. Like it -- it's like, what is he going to say when he goes on?

COOPER: I know. Here -- here's but -- here's -- here's what -- here's what I've been saying --

RYE: Yes, yes.

COOPER: -- which is it is a double standard because Kamala Harris has policies and she talks about her policies. And you may think she doesn't talk in detail enough about her policies and plenty do. And I -- I pushed her on that last night. I quiz. I try to look at the policies from different, but she's got stated policies and you can look them up. Donald Trump does not have policies.

[20:45:14]

THA GOD: There you go. That's what I'm talking about.

COOPER: Yes. And we say, I mean, this is nothing new. We talk about this all the time. He doesn't have --

THA GOD: I agree with you.

COOPER: -- he does not have his policy -- in the 2016, his policy for Iraq was taking Iraq's oil by using U.S. soldiers to surround the oil fields --

RYE: That's right.

COOPER: -- and extract the oil somehow and bring it to America. I mean, literally. And I was like, that's not a thing. So that's been going on now. That's what --

THA GOD: What you just did -- what you just did what I would like to hear more pundits do, because a lot of times we ask --

COOPER: But -- but --

THA GOD: -- we ask answers.

RYE: He is the host.

COOPER: All right. But -- but let me -- right.

THA GOD: We say things -- we say things like --

COOPER: But -- but let me tell you.

THA GOD: Do you think Donald Trump is a fascist like, we -- I think we kind of --

COOPER: But -- but, you know what, I don't -- I'm not a pundit.

THA GOD: OK.

COOPER: I -- I'm not interested.

RYE: He's the host.

COOPER: I don't think my opinion is particularly interesting -- interesting for viewers out there. I'm interested in --

THA GOD: I disagree.

COOPER: OK. I quiver with it.

RYE: I disagree with that too, Anderson.

COOPER: You can quiver with it. But I believe in asking questions and probing people's arguments and trying to reveal people's arguments, what's true and what's not. And I like -- I'm not on MSNBC for a reason. I'm not on some other network for a reason, on CNN, because I want to talk to Republicans. I want to talk to Democrats. And I want to learn from them. I don't think I have the answers. I'm willing to change my mind. People can convince me of stuff all the time. I -- I -- like, I'm not a -- I don't even know why I'm talking about myself. I don't know why I'm talking about myself.

RYE: No. But -- but Anderson I want to -- I want to tell you this --

COOPER: But -- but my point is, I think what we're doing here is important because I do think in this country where, you know what, I got so many, I don't look at comments about myself, but I -- I was looking up some co -- comments about my grief podcast and I came across this whole inundation from people who are Harris supporters saying to me online today, like, how dare you? What a betrayal that you would ask her these questions. And I'm like --

THA GOD: No. You did your job.

COOPER: -- you misunderstand what my job is. I'm not on MSNBC or I'm no disrespect. They -- what they do is they're very talented, but it's -- I don't watch it. I'm not interested in watching what these overpaid blow dried anchors think. And I include myself in that overpaid blow dried, although I don't blow dry. I am overpaid. But I don't want the -- I'm not interested in the anchors opinion. I'm interested in facts and letting the viewers' make up their own mind. So anyway, I'm sorry this devolved. It's something that's been successful.

RYE: I -- I like that you said that, but I will just say in this moment, some of what we're talking about tonight, Anderson, is not actually an opinion at all. It is just the facts. And you are one of the most trusted voices on television. And it is important in those moments where, you know, those conversations devolve into nonsense, particularly on the other side of the aisle, their conspiracy theory, they won't even say her name right.

That has to be checked in the moment because that is what fascism looks like. That is how we start sliding down a very slippery slope. And we cannot afford to be here. The election is 12 days away and this should not be even what is on the ballot, but democracies on the line. That is not a partisan issue. It is the truth. And I think that's, what's important for cable news networks in particular to be saying, whether you're on "Fox," you're on CNN or you're "MSNBC." For all of us, that is our responsibility and our patriotic duty.

THA GOD: And now that I know you can literally call bullshit, I want to hear it --

RYE: Literally.

THA GOD: -- I want to hear it more.

COOPER: Charlamagne tha God, thank you. Angela Rye, thank you so much. …

— Brian Stelter (@brianstelter) October 25, 2024

I’ve seen a lot of “gotcha!” responses to this interview. The transcript is a helpful antidote. And it’s a discussion worth reading in full.